Rocky and Rambo on the rampage

Rocky

Rambo

I have had three behaviourists advise three different things about my dogs. One even said to put them on sleeping pills during the day!
I have two boys. Rocky is six and Rambo is five. I've had them both since they were 12 weeks old. I had a few problems with chewing but over come that and I think them being neutered helped. Over the last few months they have trashed my house each day when I leave them, whether for a few minutes or hours. Nothing has changed. We have the same routine as ever. No change of food either. I took them to the vet and they are in good health. I have to lock them in my kitchen and barricade the door so they can’t enter the main house or go upstairs. They have cost me over £3,000 in replacement carpets, walls, sofas…you name it, we've replaced it. I bought a Staff cage but they broke out and cut themselves - (they were okay, I took them to the vet).
I tried another cage but again they broke out of that.
Can you suggest anything that can help me and my boys?
They are so loving and great with people & kids. I love them so much, so why do they hate me?
Mrs Tania Day

Some more info from Tania:
I asked Tania some more questions after the first comment requesting more details . I asked if her neighbours say her dogs bark much while she's out - I guess I wondered if they did bark someone might be winding them up by shouting at them to be quiet. I asked how long they are left, what they are like when she returns and what the three behaviourists had said. If you want to know more, please do post a comment.

Dear Beverley
No they do not bark at all. Not sure if they enjoy wrecking as I'm not there to see, but when I get home the are very sheepish and go into a corner - as if they know they have done wrong,
I don't smack them at all , once I said "Who did that?" and they both wet themselves.
I have now employed a dog walker, so I take them at 0600hrs for 30 mins, she comes in during the day for 1 hour, then I take them again at night. This has helped, in the fact they are not chewing the walls anymore, but now they chew the kitchen chairs and are scratching the flooring, looks like a war zone. I paid over £400 for an iron gate to stop them from getting into the living area which works.
One behaviourist said a plug in spray would help - the smell reminds them of their mother!
Another said something on the lines of Prozac for dogs - which is a no no. Another said don't leave them alone - hence dog walker and my elderly neighbour who goes in four or five times a day to let them out and play. When someone is with them it's like butter would not melt... left alone they are devil dogs from hell
They continue to chew. I spoke to a Kennel they want over £110 per week to have them 0800-1800 these days that a lot of money .
I am still at my wits end - any help will be great.
Tania

I have to say I'm getting involved now and can't help asking more questions myself - here's my latest email to Tania who is having trouble getting on this site - she says it comes up in German. Has this happened to anyone else?

Hi Tania
Do the two dogs play together – I have two dogs also a year apart in age and they play together all the time, like pups. Could chewing have become a communal game – and could you replace it with one which is even more rewarding?
What is their relationship like – is one in charge or not? What are they like with other dogs and other people? Are they always confident or are they ever fearful?
When you are home do they follow you from room to room and even to the loo? If so does one do this more than another?
Have you tried leaving them stuffed Kongs? Chewing something that tastes nice may be more fun that chewing a chair. The neighbour could bring a fresh couple in for example. There is an art in stuffing a Kong – use something to die-for and stinky squashed into the top – for eg bacon or chicken skin, then wedge in bigger biscuits that are hard to get out and then fill up with smaller bits of kibble or treats that will spill out easily without too much effort. You can use cheese, peanut butter, liver cakes - cat food even, you can even use tasty liquids and freeze them, so the dog has to lick them for hours to get the treats out.
You can also get a device that releases a new stuffed Kong every hour or so on a timer – although with two dogs you might find you have to separate them if they are going to be competitive over food.
Do they behave well at night – do they sleep in the kitchen? Do you leave on some background noise when you are out, a TV etc so it feels like you are home even if you’re not.
Do the dogs ever lose their housetraining when left?
Are they exercised off leash – do they ever get tired by exercise or are they always still raring to go when you get home?
What do you feed them? Have you tried changing the diet at all? Are they fed once a day or more?
Sorry to ask so many questions!
Cheers
Beverley

Hi Beverley
They are so close, always together. Rambo is the leader, they eat together. All the years I have had them they have never had a fight.
They are great with people and children. Rocky is ok with other dogs really, he just ignores them. Rambo will ignore them to until they come over to him or Rocky or me, then he lets them know to go away. He has never bitten anyone or a dog, we walk at night with another dog
but we walk behind, after a few minutes he is fine. They are always confident unless they have done wrong then they cower down.
Yes when I am home they follow me everywhere loo, bath etc. Rambo is the one who will come with me, then minutes later Rocky will be there not sure if he follows Rambo or me.
Each day I stuff Kongs with treats, cream cheese bacon ham chicken, Neither of them are foodies, they have one each.
Rocky will chew on a treat, Rambo you have to break up small or he will leave it, he will not have a bone, where as Rocky will.
Rambo likes small bite size things where Rocky will chew for hours if I let him - he swallows big chunks, then I have to help him get it unstuck from his throat so I don't leave him alone when he has one. They are not competitive for food If Rocky has something he will either take it to Rambo or if Rambo wants it he will just walk away.
They are so good when I'm home, they sleep in my bedroom on a massive pillow I cant trust them alone downstairs. During the day I leave a the radio on, not too loud. They are clean dogs, no mess from them while left alone, only when they have had a upset tummy which cant be helped. Yes they do exercise of lead when we go to the park, when they get home they
go to the loo in the garden , then water then sleep for a while.
Food was a big issue they will only eat a handful of dry food. I have to pick out the green and yellow pieces - they have half dog food in jelly only not gravy with a pack of fresh liver or kidney or hearts that's at night. For breakfast, dry food and dog food. This is the only food they will eat, they were on fresh tripe but they got to big and over weight (they vet said).
I have to get a new floor in the kitchen, they are down to concrete now
Thanks for your help and suggestions.
Tania

Okay - folks lots more information now! Any food experts out there? Could the protein levels be too high? Itching to pitch in, but there are people with a lot more behaviour knowledge than me who could make some suggestions. But I'm thinking these are two very attached dogs...

More info:
Hi Beverley
Just seen a few comments
Video footage is my next option but I have to get a camera may take a little time though.
Yes my dog walker is CRB checked and I have a copy of her certificate. I have her home address and I popped round unannounced!
Not sure about going down the route of a behaviourist again, how can they help when they only trash when they are on there own.
If it is a case of "just playing" how can I stop this? They have a box of toys which they have during the day, and only a few of them at night.
I have tried not to be so loving and distance myself from them a little bit but its hard we all need love and affection
Tania

Hi Tania
It is tricky sorting these probs – but it may be that you’ve not yet found the right behaviorist. Where are you based?
There are so many people calling themselves experts, it’s hard to spot the good from the bad and even the bad usually mean well!
You have shown considerable dedication in trying to solve these problems already. That’s half the battle - not giving up.
As to becoming less loving – don’t think that’s the key. It just maybe the boys are hooked on attention and even being bad puts them in the centre of things.
My instincts are they are enjoying being destructive and it may need channelling and being used as a reward.
It may be you get loads of cardboard boxes for them to trash as a reward, maybe a digging pit outside to get those urges out of their system.
I do think you probably need to look at the diet, there’s a lot of protein going on and that can influence behavior. There were some studies on some dogs that were only fed fresh meat and they changed so much when a more balanced diet was introduced. What were they like on tripe? Any different?
I have a feeling on a healthy lower protein diet these dogs could calm right down. You know how food can affects kids' behaviour, it’s more intense in dogs as we make all their decisions for them.
Fingers crossed we can find someone to help sort this
Cheers
Beverley

Hi Beverley
I am based in Langley - Berkshire, Nr Slough & Windsor
How many more behaviourists do I need to pay before I find the right one, money should not be a issue when it comes to my dogs but they have cost me hundreds of pounds believe me.
They won't touch cardboard boxes even if I play with them and try to make them chew them they won't chew in front of me at all. I have a large back garden they can dig if they want, but they don't like getting wet or dirty. If it rains outside they won't go out for a walk I have to pull them out even the dog walker comments if it's wet out they don't want to walk but want to go home. When they are in the garden, I shut them out to go to the loo the scratch the door to come back in. I think I will put them back on tripe, they loved it but got big and the vet said they were overweight but they did not behave like this.
Sometimes my emails sound negative, but I've tried loads of things. I will keep trying anything as I am sure they are not happy by the look on their faces when they have been bad.
Tania



I was not at work for 3 days then we had weekend off. My dogs we really good, on Friday I had workmen round to tile the floor in the kitchen.
On Saturday I went out for three hours and my husband took them out for a
walk for over a hour. They were shattered when they came back. We left them for 1 hour 20
mins came home to utter chaos they had chewed all the boxing-in work I had done, ripped off a
metal corner edge, chewed a hole in plaster board. Blood every where but I could not see where the blood came from - I checked them both.

We have now had no choice but to put them into a large cupboard, it's like a larder cupboard over the stairs. With a gate so they can see out. It is a large space I can walk into it
then it slopes down. It sounds bad, but we have no other choice if we want to keep them and I do. But we can not go on like this. I am so upset, yesterday all day they slept, so why can't they do that when we are not there?

Every week they cost us money, sometimes just a few pounds, replacing rugs or mats things like that I don't mind really but it is getting to much, I dread going home at times.

I am upset that they are unhappy.

I have more picture of the damage if you want them.

Thanks
Tania

Dogs Today Think Tank behaviourist Amy Hatcher has been to see Tania, Rocky and Rambo.
Here's an update.

Dear Beverley
Happy new year to you, things are going okay, I have been off work for two weeks so I have had time to spend with them and put into practice what Amy has told us to do.
Sometimes they are good, but still when we leave them Rambo does chew a little we still have not left them out to have to run of the house as Rambo pulled all the cushions of the sofa when I left him for 10 mins only.
Amy suggested putting tin foil on the sofa's which would stop them from jumping on them, I did this but came downstairs to find them curled up and asleep on the foil!
I have photos for Amy of this which I will get to her soon.
They do seem a lot more mellow this is a change of food I think, they still play as normal, but must admit they have calmed down
Today is the first time they will be left a full day in four weeks as I am at work and my husband is away until this weekend, so this week will tell.
All in all I think the change of food has made a difference, but like I said I don't think I can keep them out have the run of the house yet - which is our goal.
I will keep you informed
Thank you & Regards
Tania