I have three Basset Hound's, Daisy aged nearly 11, Obi aged one and Wellington aged five months. I have a problem in that Obi & now Wellington eat Daisy's poo (nice eh?). They don't eat each others it is just Daisy - they are driving me insane!.
I have spoken to the vet and they said it is habit and a hard one to break, I have tried feeding Daisy Pineapple as this I'm told makes the faeces taste horrible (which I find rather ironic that we need to make it taste vile). I have tried shouting at the other 2 (which I hate doing, but I also hate seeing them do it) & I have covered the faeces in very hot chili sauce to stop them eating it (worked for a while). I have also changed Daisy's food, but Nothing works.
I am now at the stage where I go outside with Daisy every time she goes out so I can clear up immediately giving the other 2 no opportunity to get it. This is a nuisance as I am always conscious & watching when they are all outside in the garden playing.
I don't know what else to do - the vet assures me that to them it is not dirty, sometimes a sign of a clean dog & I have done a little research into this and all sorts of things can cause it as I'm sure you know - in this case I think it is a pack dominance issue as Daisy is very much in charge of them both. Wellington didn't used to do it but of course he has copied Obi.
The only thing I can think of trying is putting cayenne (not sure how this is spelt) pepper to see if that stops them and using a water spray when they go for it. I've even thought of buying muzzles for Obi & Welly so they can't get it to see if this would break the habit they have got into. It isn't possible to segregate the garden so Daisy can be left alone - although believe me I've thought about it!. Daisy get's quite distressed about it as you can imagine and a couple of times she has stopped herself going to the toilet which is not good.
I know that dogs are very food motivated, basset's especially, but the minute I try & distract Obi & Welly with a biscuit Daisy stops what she is doing and comes over for a treat to so that doesn't work.
I would appreciate any help & advice, I know dogs eat vile things and that's just normal to them, but this is obsessive and they follow her around which annoys her & me!. I really want to be able to leave the dogs in the garden without watching all the time.
Any advice gratefully received!
Many Thanks
Kind Regards
Jayne Bradshaw
May issue
May issue
Showing posts with label copraphagia poo eating prevention. Show all posts
Showing posts with label copraphagia poo eating prevention. Show all posts
Friday, 19 March 2010
Tuesday, 13 January 2009
The trials and tribulations of having a poo-eating Labrador
I first wrote to you about this subject (my poo eating Labrador) in March/April 2007 and received a very comprehensive reply from Jon Bowen dated 10 April 2007. I carried out all his suggestions to no avail. We have tried a water pistol - which he loved, a muzzle which he didn't like but still managed to "mash and sieve" the poo through it!! (Sorry if you are eating!) and also, on the advice of our vet, tried an electric collar, which had to be turned up to its maximum strength to be effective. It did work on any particular occasion but did not teach him not to eat poo long term and I HATED USING IT. We also have a citronella spray collar but all that does is make him smell quite nice! He is very crafty in that he gets ahead of us quickly snatch and away munching, citronella spraying all around! We are both in our 70s and fit but unable to keep abreast of him all the time! We live in the country, surrounded by lovely walks, so 90% of our walking is off lead. Yes, we could keep him on the lead but that does make for a miserable prospect for all of us. We have another Labrador, a bitch, who is an absolute gem and they do love to run together. Our vet has lost the plot and just told us we have a poo eating dog for life!! Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Monty is three years and four months old, not overweight but well fed, twice daily. Otherwise well behaved (for a three-year-old male Labrador) and we have 40 years experience of Labradors!
Marian Dinkele, by email
I must confess that our Labrador is just the same, and she is now nine-years-old! She especially likes sun-baked dog poo because it is all crispy then! Yuk!
There are specific tablets available which you feed to your dog to taint her own faeces and, hopefully, put her off eating them. Adding a little tinned pineapple, for example, to the diet will also taint the faeces. This will not, however, necessarily stop her from eating other dogs’ poo because, obviously, they will not be affected by the tablets, unless she finds the taste of her own faeces so distasteful that she cannot bear to try any other dogs’ faeces.
Eating faeces or coprophagy is a repulsive habit (especially when your dog rushes back to greet, wanting to lick you!) which is very hard to break, as you have found. Faeces are a source of food, containing undigested food matter, so as far as your dog is concerned she has found herself a wonderful food source and can snack whilst out on a walk. I have pretty well resigned myself to this – I do still yell at Pippin when she puts her head down, and fortunately it is often an apple she has found because we walk around an orchard.
Have you tried walking your dog when she is not hungry? I do not generally suggest exercise after feeding, but perhaps she would be less likely to eat other dogs’ poo if she was not hungry.
Of course, if all the other dog owners were to pick up their dogs’ faeces, there would be no dog poo about for our dogs to eat!
Alison Logan, vet
In my experience, when fixed on a particular source of obsession-which for this breed so often means food!—some Labradors can be stubbornly resistant to a range of deterrent devices that are far more effective on more sensitive dogs or individuals.
When using such deterrent devices, it is also critical that owners have pinpoint timing; ideally activating them just before a ‘wrong’ thought in a dog’s mind has become an actual action, and thus nipping it as early as possible in the bud. More often than not, however, they either use them at the wrong time, or too often, so the dog never learns the right lesson from the experience, or learns to simply work on through the deterrent effect as it becomes increasingly more insensitive to it.
I am surprised your vet recommended an electric collar, because if these devices are going to be used at all then it should only be in extreme situations and in expert hands, as it is incredibly easy to psychologically damage a dog, and give it further problems, through their misuse. This is also a reason why so many people in the dog world would like such devices banned.
Either way the electric collar effect, as a deterrent, has not worked in your dog’s case because, even if you got the timing right, you clearly did not use it consistently enough and long enough to put him off eating poo long-term.
It strikes me that for Monty, the whole issue of eating poo has now moved well beyond a more casual or sporadic experience to a total obsession; not least because of the vast amount of attention you clearly give it. Labradors can also be notorious scavengers.
Your frantic attempts to stop Monty’s behaviour may also be the trigger for him gobbling down any poo as rapidly as possible, before you can prevent him. It is also possible—horrific as you may find this—he believes you are openly competing with him for the stuff.
A solution to your problem could lie in better training—and, in particular, teaching Monty to ‘leave’ something on command. To do this, start by filling your pockets with really irresistible treats and then put Monty on a long line. Next, place an empty food bowl some way ahead of him. As he goes up to inspect it, call him back to you, reeling him back if necessary on the line. As soon as he leaves the bowl to come to you, say the word ‘leave!’, then reward Monty immediately with one of your really tasty treats for complying.
Next, put something like grated carrot in the bowl, and then maybe something like rice. Again, as soon as Monty goes near this, call him back as before, saying the word ‘leave!’ as he leaves the bowl, and rewarding him with a tasty treat. You may have to do this quite a few times before Monty reliably comes straight to you, and leaves the bowl, on command, in return for a treat. It is vital he never gets a chance to eat whatever is in the bowl before you can reward him for leaving it. And your treat must always be far more desirable than whatever you put in the bowl.
Only when Monty is responding really well to this exercise, try him near poo, but still on a line, and try the same ‘leave’ command in return for a reward. Do this as many times as possible to condition this training in and do not even think about letting him off the line near poo again until you feel he will still reliably leave it on command, otherwise you will be back to square one.
Taught well, this exercise can be very effective. But if it does not work for you you may ultimately have to decide what is more important; Monty being off the lead or Monty not eating poo, as it could be you will have to choose between the two options.
Carol Price, behaviorist
Coprophagia (eating faeces) is an example of depraved appetite or pica (so called after the Latin name for magpie pica pica pica which has a reputation for taking things it shouldn’t). It is a sign of non-specific ill-health, probably of the digestive tract. It is not a sign that the dog is hungry, nor is it a sign that something is lacking in the diet. Other common examples of depraved appetite are eating soil, wood even grass. The condition can usually be corrected by improvements to the diet. This does not mean that you can just try something else to see if that will work. You have to have professional expert advice and be prepared to follow it. Here at Burns Pet Nutrition we have had good results. Management must include feeding very sparingly. The correct type of food will not work if the quantity is wrong. When the diet is right, the dog will not be attracted to faeces.
At the same time as correcting the diet, it is helpful to deny access to faeces in order to break the habit.
John Burns, vet, Burns Pet Nutrition,
Marian Dinkele, by email
I must confess that our Labrador is just the same, and she is now nine-years-old! She especially likes sun-baked dog poo because it is all crispy then! Yuk!
There are specific tablets available which you feed to your dog to taint her own faeces and, hopefully, put her off eating them. Adding a little tinned pineapple, for example, to the diet will also taint the faeces. This will not, however, necessarily stop her from eating other dogs’ poo because, obviously, they will not be affected by the tablets, unless she finds the taste of her own faeces so distasteful that she cannot bear to try any other dogs’ faeces.
Eating faeces or coprophagy is a repulsive habit (especially when your dog rushes back to greet, wanting to lick you!) which is very hard to break, as you have found. Faeces are a source of food, containing undigested food matter, so as far as your dog is concerned she has found herself a wonderful food source and can snack whilst out on a walk. I have pretty well resigned myself to this – I do still yell at Pippin when she puts her head down, and fortunately it is often an apple she has found because we walk around an orchard.
Have you tried walking your dog when she is not hungry? I do not generally suggest exercise after feeding, but perhaps she would be less likely to eat other dogs’ poo if she was not hungry.
Of course, if all the other dog owners were to pick up their dogs’ faeces, there would be no dog poo about for our dogs to eat!
Alison Logan, vet
In my experience, when fixed on a particular source of obsession-which for this breed so often means food!—some Labradors can be stubbornly resistant to a range of deterrent devices that are far more effective on more sensitive dogs or individuals.
When using such deterrent devices, it is also critical that owners have pinpoint timing; ideally activating them just before a ‘wrong’ thought in a dog’s mind has become an actual action, and thus nipping it as early as possible in the bud. More often than not, however, they either use them at the wrong time, or too often, so the dog never learns the right lesson from the experience, or learns to simply work on through the deterrent effect as it becomes increasingly more insensitive to it.
I am surprised your vet recommended an electric collar, because if these devices are going to be used at all then it should only be in extreme situations and in expert hands, as it is incredibly easy to psychologically damage a dog, and give it further problems, through their misuse. This is also a reason why so many people in the dog world would like such devices banned.
Either way the electric collar effect, as a deterrent, has not worked in your dog’s case because, even if you got the timing right, you clearly did not use it consistently enough and long enough to put him off eating poo long-term.
It strikes me that for Monty, the whole issue of eating poo has now moved well beyond a more casual or sporadic experience to a total obsession; not least because of the vast amount of attention you clearly give it. Labradors can also be notorious scavengers.
Your frantic attempts to stop Monty’s behaviour may also be the trigger for him gobbling down any poo as rapidly as possible, before you can prevent him. It is also possible—horrific as you may find this—he believes you are openly competing with him for the stuff.
A solution to your problem could lie in better training—and, in particular, teaching Monty to ‘leave’ something on command. To do this, start by filling your pockets with really irresistible treats and then put Monty on a long line. Next, place an empty food bowl some way ahead of him. As he goes up to inspect it, call him back to you, reeling him back if necessary on the line. As soon as he leaves the bowl to come to you, say the word ‘leave!’, then reward Monty immediately with one of your really tasty treats for complying.
Next, put something like grated carrot in the bowl, and then maybe something like rice. Again, as soon as Monty goes near this, call him back as before, saying the word ‘leave!’ as he leaves the bowl, and rewarding him with a tasty treat. You may have to do this quite a few times before Monty reliably comes straight to you, and leaves the bowl, on command, in return for a treat. It is vital he never gets a chance to eat whatever is in the bowl before you can reward him for leaving it. And your treat must always be far more desirable than whatever you put in the bowl.
Only when Monty is responding really well to this exercise, try him near poo, but still on a line, and try the same ‘leave’ command in return for a reward. Do this as many times as possible to condition this training in and do not even think about letting him off the line near poo again until you feel he will still reliably leave it on command, otherwise you will be back to square one.
Taught well, this exercise can be very effective. But if it does not work for you you may ultimately have to decide what is more important; Monty being off the lead or Monty not eating poo, as it could be you will have to choose between the two options.
Carol Price, behaviorist
Coprophagia (eating faeces) is an example of depraved appetite or pica (so called after the Latin name for magpie pica pica pica which has a reputation for taking things it shouldn’t). It is a sign of non-specific ill-health, probably of the digestive tract. It is not a sign that the dog is hungry, nor is it a sign that something is lacking in the diet. Other common examples of depraved appetite are eating soil, wood even grass. The condition can usually be corrected by improvements to the diet. This does not mean that you can just try something else to see if that will work. You have to have professional expert advice and be prepared to follow it. Here at Burns Pet Nutrition we have had good results. Management must include feeding very sparingly. The correct type of food will not work if the quantity is wrong. When the diet is right, the dog will not be attracted to faeces.
At the same time as correcting the diet, it is helpful to deny access to faeces in order to break the habit.
John Burns, vet, Burns Pet Nutrition,
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