Unfortunately, since he's been with his new owners he keeps having blood in his stools and the runs.
He's now been diagnosed with Irritable Bowel Syndrome. He was on Burns (Pork and Potato) when he was with Jemima and was fine, but fed on Burns in his new home Ronnie has been, well, runny. (I have asked whether the new owners kept on with this same variety, but am still awaiting a response!)
The vet switched Ronnie to Royal Canin Sensitive and things have improved, but the owners are finding it very pricey. Is there a cheaper alternative?
Is there a support group for doggie IBS? Or anyone out there with loads of experience to pass on?
What's in - (or rather not in!) - Royal Canin Sensitive? Is there a difference between IBS and a food allergy/intolerance?
We have a dog who has a very sensitive stomach in kennels just now and he is being fed on Chappie and pasta. The vet recommended he was on Hills ID, but that was too pricey for us, so recommended chappie? Lots of vets also recommend chappie to us for colitus problems.
ReplyDeleteSometimes a homecooked diet is good for IBD?
Good luck
Boxer Welfare Scotland
Yes I have loads of experience to pass on. It is a pity I wasn't asked earlier!
ReplyDeleteIt is possible that the new owners were giving Ronnie too much Burns food and that is why he was runny. Reducing the amount of Pork and Potato may be sufficient to resolve the runny stools. That would cut the cost at the same time. There are a number of other Burns foods to try -brown rice or maize varieties -but this should be done under the guidance of Burns' Nutrition Team.
John Burns BVMS MRCVS
Burns Pet Nutrition
Sorry I missed the comment from Boxer Welfare about home cooked food. I agree: a combination of brown rice, vegetables and a little meat (that does not mean moist pet food, I mean real beef, lamb chicken or fish)can be effective. The rice should be cooked for longer than normal to make it even more digestible.
ReplyDeleteJohn Burns
Hi John
ReplyDeleteJust checked with Jemima and the new owners did talk to the Burns nutrition team, still waiting to hear which variety they recommended they try and which one they were feeding initially, but it didn't solve it hence going to the vet. Googling seems to reveal that the Royal Canin diet is mainly fish and tapioca. As we all now know that seems to work for Ronnie is there anything similar in your range they could try?
Beverley
Oops! My original point that we need to be involved with advice still holds. Sometimes it is necessary to try several foods within our different ranges to get the right one for a particular dog. And I must emphasise again that getting the quantity right is just as important as having the right variety of food. Too much food reduces digestibility. In addition, food intolerance can be related to quantity i.e. a small amount of food may be fine but too much triggers an adverse reaction.
ReplyDeleteWe have two fish-based foods but not with tapioca: one is brown rice and the other is maize.
To go back to the original question, IBS (Irritable Bowel Syndrome) is simply a term to cover a group of symptoms; food allergy/intolerance is the disease condition which causes those symptoms.
John Burns
Tree Barks Powder would be ideal to help with this. It contains Slippery Elm and Poplar Barks and is fantastic for anything to do with intestinal upsets, diarrhoea etc. I know because I've been given it when I get the occasional dose of the runnies. They just sprinkle a teaspoon or two on my food and lo and behold I'm fine again in no time..... just contact my lot at Dorwest Herbs and they'll sort you out double quick.
ReplyDeleteI think you have to do what is best at the time. My Belgian Terv has had very bad colitis/IBD and was in lots of pain. She was on good food - Natures Menu etc. After trying a few others over a few days, she was in such pain I went straight ...over to Hills and Royal Canin. I never looked back - she was "better" in24 hours.
ReplyDeleteIt may be that BARF etc is good, but not all owners will want to feed it or know how to, so for a fast fix, go for Royal Canin/Hills. See if that helps. Then if you have time, try other stuff (raw? other good quality diets?) a small teaspoon at a time, and no more.
My dog can eat raw marrow bones and chicken and "bread" but gets unwell on things like apple cores, you'd expect it to be the other way round. EGGS make her ill, very ill, and so does cheese. Some peeps who feed raw also like to feed eggs, so my advice is to be incredibly careful, watch what food rewards you use also (I used HIlls kibble at first, and would throw it to make it more exciting ...) and don't let a single thing pass the dog's lips that you do not know about and are OK about the dog having.
My dog's been fine on Royal Canin and Hills for 6 years now. She has raw marrow bones for dental health (although she has had to have some teeth out sadly) and chicken and kibble for treats.
IF the dog also suffers from a bilious tummy (bringing up bile/being or feeling sick) feed several smaller meals a day. Ours gets a small meal at 6.30am, any later and she is sick. A larger meal later in the morning after a walk, a snack mid afternoonand her main meal in the evneing. We give her Royal Canin canned and Hills ID kibble.
Hth?See More
I was diagnosed with IBS this year and given a information sheet on diet. For years the advice given was to up fibre intake usually bran but now studies show that insoluble fibres such as bran or whole wheats can actually irritate the bowel because it has to work harder. I was told to eat Soluble fibre, found in oats, barley, flax seeds, and vegetables like carrots. It has helped a lot so maybe feeding a natural diet containing a balance of these will help your dog.
ReplyDeleteAlso customer of mine had a elderly rescue GSD who had been starved in his early life. She would sieve his dry food and try and get rid of as much of the crumbs and dust as possible as she swore it aggravated his bowel problems!
I am amazed not to see anyone talking about doing any work on gut healing here - or about the fact that gluten and corn are known to cause many problems in dogs - and when you continually eat foods your body struggles with [like carbs for a carnivore], you end up with IBS or Leaky Gut Syndrome.
ReplyDeleteIf this were my dog, I'd be straight-away stopping all ingredients not conducive with the digestive system of a carnivore [which dogs are -Canis lupus familiaris], introducing L-Glutamine to promote gut healing, Probiotics & Citricidal to help stabilise gut flora and having the dog on a RMB/Prey diet which is the closest thing to what their digestive system is naturally designed to deal with, and thus will be least stressful to the gut, and be consulting a veterinary homeopath for which remedies would support and help.
I would also not be using any pesticides[wormer or flea treatments etc] or vaccines [only licensed for use in healthy dogs] until my dog was back to full health, I would use garlic or natural applications 'if' the need arose.
Agree with everything Julie has said, as the owner of a GSD with IBD I know it works!! Raw food diet, rmb and no gluten plus supplements as mentioned. We now don't have nay problems.
ReplyDeleteI would agree with many of the comments made by Julie Arnold natural rearing owner on 29th September. I have been feeding raw for a number of years now, but Pork is not a meat I would feed on a regular basis, especially to a dog whose immune system has probably been compromised by stress/poor diet in it's early life. Dogs digestions' are not designed to cope with carbohydrates well, which can result in the very symptoms described, although there may be individual dogs who are different. The immune system can be supported by the addition of garlic to the diet, and the introduction of 4Life Transfer Factor, but really the dogs' health needs to be considered holistically and the idea of a veterinary homeopath would be a good one.
ReplyDeleteWhat I find very frustrating is people feeding dogs cheap dried food, they don't give an iota of thought to the the dogs needs, what is cheap on the day they go shopping, working at a boarding kennels is a real eye opener, some dogs come in reaking of the food they are eating the urine is nasty, the poops well, looks like cake mix, it is beyound belief.
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't be surprised that because of many years of humans feeding dogs kibble that dogs are changing with evolution.
I have third and fourth generation raw fed and non conventionaly vaxed Bull Terriers and have to say that they are and have been the healthiest.
Dogs and cats are born with teeth for tearing and ripping flesh and meat they are not born with scissors and can openers on their backs.
The advent of commercial diets in the last 60 years has introduced large amounts of grains and starches. These foodsare carbohydrates, which are sugars. Besidesadding sugarsto the diet, these foodsadd more fibre and bulk to the dogs system.
Sugar in turn, directly effects the blood sugar in the body. Caninesare designedto make glucosefrom amino acids (proteins)which keep the blood sugar level in a canines body, this in turn, helps to keep blood sugar levels even.
Feeding diets high in grains (wheat, corn, oatmeal, barley,amaranth and rice to name a few) along with starches (potatoes, beets and carrots) cause blood sugars to rise and then fall. This type of action directly effects diabetes, can trigger epileptic seizures, create aggravation in joints in dogs with arthritis, effect thyroid conditionds and lastly offer energy to cancer cells.
I have treated many dogs with IBS and diet is first on the list to make changes. A species appropriate diet is paramount if the dog is to have a normal life. Also adding in a good probiotic such as Primal Defense and the amino acid L-glutamine will significantly help any dog with IBS.
ReplyDeleteAll the chemicals such as preservatives, starches and other inappropriate foodstuff found in commercial pet foods will only aggravate the condition. Also vaccines and antibiotics cause a huge imbalance in the natural flora of the digestive system.
I am so very interested to follow this story, as Julie knows, as I have a 10 month-old GSD female that I've had since May and she's NEVER had a formed stool. After a few trips to the vet we discovered she had giardia, that took a long time to clear up completely, but she still has the runs. I've tried different diets, prescription, chicken and rice, etc, but now have just started raw meat. I need to get organised to do the proper rmb diet, need a bigger freezer for a start, but she's been getting chicken wings and ground beef the last couple of days as a stop-gap and I do see some improvement. Am also waiting for the local health food store to get in some citricidal, I'm out in the boonies, so may take a week or two, but I am confident, with Julie's advice, we are finally on the right track. Also, my other fella, who's three, has suffered from (at times) nasty skin allergies. I stopped food/treats with corn and wheat in them with some improvement, but I'm so keen to see if the raw food gets rid of it completely. I'm so excited! Watch this space .....
ReplyDeleteyep I can agree with lots of the above! My dog eats fresh lamb and Markus Muehle and now has perfect poo!! we also give b-naturals 'Zyme' (1 tablet with each meal) and no longer vaccinate.
ReplyDeletePlease, could someone expand a little on the supplements mentioned above? I have two rescue mongrels (ages 4 and 12 years), who both suffer from colitis. I saw a significant improvement in both dogs upon starting to feed a raw diet, but am still experiencing problems. After a year or so, my older dog suffered two acute episodes of colitis approx 3 months apart. The first lasted about a fortnight and the second only cleared up after approx. two weeks when I started to feed the dry veterinary prescription diet 'Pro-Plan DCO' (my vet is very against a raw diet). My younger dog is still fed a raw diet amd produces a firm stool most of the time, but this can still be accompanied by a significant quantity of mucus. She is fed two chicken wings and 100g of lamb and chicken mince/white fish/sardines/tripe/liver daily (and a Dorwest Herbs garlic tablet), and a scrambled egg twice a week. I have tried Dorwest Herbs Tree Barks Powder but didn't feel that it helped. I worm both dogs conventionally every three months.
ReplyDeleteAgree with a lot of the comments. I feed my dog with IBS Acana grasslands, so grain free and some raw chicken. Works a treat and not to expensive, save on mediaction and vets bills.
ReplyDeleteClaire,
ReplyDeleteMany vets are against rawfeeding, but look up your dogs anatomy and you'll know what's right...
Probiotics: this page is quite good :
http://www.healingdaily.com/detoxification-diet/probiotics.htm
Citricidal :
http://www.salveo.co.uk/health/higher_nature/citricidal.asp?gclid=CIzB-bndsaQCFRYB4wodekKsyw
L-Glutamine:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/glutamine.htm
-Thanks Viv - like I said, I'm not a vet, but just know what has worked for myself and others so can only say what I would look at if it were my dog, but so glad to hear things are improving.
I am the owner of Ronnie. Thank you for all your comments and advice. I was told by the vet that Ronnie probably has Inflammatory Bowel Diease. We were initially feeding Ronnie Burns Chicken & Brown rice and when the problems began I made 3 phone calls to Burns for advice. I followed the advice feeding him smaller amounts 3 times a day. Last week when he started bleeding the Vet put him straight on Royal Canin Sensitivity Control and within 24 hours his poos were normal. It has now been 7 days on the Royal Canin and the difference is amazing. However, Royal Canin is expensive by comparison and not an ideal long term solution. I would be interested to know how and when to try something else.
ReplyDelete